Science Intro

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  • #145
    Dan S
    Keymaster

    There are a number of antibiotics that are effective for treating protomyxzoa.

    Effective antibiotics include:

    • Artemisinin and derivatives (artesunate and artemether)
    • Ivermectin
    • Atovaquone
    • Metronidazole (Flagyl) and tinidazole
    • Azithromycin
    • Miltefosine
    • Berberine (goldenseal)
    • Doxycycline (but only in combination with mineral chelators like EDTA or IP6, IMO)

     

    General comments about using antibiotics to treat protomyxzoa:

    Protomyxzoa is a protozoan. Protozoans have a much more complex biology and life cycles than bacteria. Consequently, there are very few “broad spectrum” antiprotozoal drugs. There are a great many broad spectrum antibacterial drugs. Treating a protozoal infection often requires finding the specific drug (or drug combination) that is effective for the specific protozoan. Some protozoan diseases still have no reliable cure. Examples of this include Leishmaniasis and Chagas disease. Leishmaniasis is curable only with miltefosine or antimony drugs. Antimony drugs are dangerously toxic and outdated; miltefosine was discovered to be effective for leishmaniasis in the last several years. The standard treatment for Chagas disease is a combination of 2 drugs and provides a cure rate of about 25%.

    So, the challenge with treating protomyxzoa is finding the specific drug or drug combination that works. Most antiprotozoal drugs will not be effective. I do not think there is a single drug that can cure protomyxzoa (i’ve tried them all, it seems). But there may be a drug combination that works. I believe an effective combination will be found among the 6 drugs listed above (probably a combination of 2-3 drugs).

    One family of drugs that could be described as “broad spectrum” antiprotozoals are the “Azole” drugs: metronidazole and tinidazole. These drugs are active against many protozoans. The azoles are highly toxic to any anaerobic microorganisms, and that includes many beneficial and important bacteria in your gut. So, while the azole drugs are effective for protomyxzoa, they will cause severe gut disturbances (e.g. irritable bowel problems), which can be persistent and difficult to correct. They are quite toxic and cannot be taken for long periods.

    if you take metronidazole or tinidazole for more than a week, it is very important to do a shit enema with shit from a healthy person. This is the only reliable way to restore healthy anaerobes to the gut. Not doing this is taking a risk of creating additional problems.

    Protomyxzoa is in the malaria/babesia family.

    Fry Laboratories has cultured and characterized protomyxzoa. They have partially sequenced its DNA. It is clear that protomyxzoa is most closely related to malaria and babesia. Malaria and babesia are protozoans that live in the blood. They both have immature life stages that live inside red blood cells and feed on iron-rich hemoglobin. They require lots of iron. Mature parasites burst from consumed red blood cells. They live in the blood and travel to other tissues in the body. Protomyxzoa appears to have a very similar life cycle with immature forms inside red blood stages and mature forms in the blood plasma (surrounded by biofilm). I expect that protomyxzoa has a similar requirement for high iron intake.

    Because protomyxzoa is closely related to malaria and babesia, we can look to the scientific literature on malaria/babesia for clues on how to treat protomyxzoa. Drugs that are effective against malaria are likely to also be effective against protomyxzoa. Drugs that are effective against both malaria and babesia it seems would have a greater likelihood of being effective. Fortunately, malaria has been studied extensively. There is an enormous body of scientific work on malaria that we can use to generate ideas for treating protomyxzoa.

    For example, malaria and babesia thrive in an iron-rich environment (e.g. in a host that has high iron levels). Protomyxzoa consumes iron-rich red blood cells. So, its likely that protomyxzoa also will thrive when provided with iron. A good way to reduce iron intake, and eliminate iron from the body is to take high doses of IP6, inositol hexaphosphate (also known as phytic acid).

    Also, some polyphenolic compounds are effective for malaria. Polyphenolic compounds are present in a number of traditional herbal remedies for malaria. Polyphenolic compounds commonly have various types of antibacterial, antifungal and antiprotozoal properties. They are all variations on a chemical theme. Polyphenolic compounds include flavonoids, anthocyanins, tannins and the like. These compounds are related in that they have many phenolic groups (a benzine ring with OH attached). Examples include EGCG from green tea, turmeric (curcumin), citrus bioflavonoids, grape seed extract, quercetin, cranberry extract, olive leaf extract, tannins and lychee fruit extract. Polyphenolic compounds also have substantial anti-biofilm activity. They inhibit the production of biofilm and disperse biofilm in many microorganisms. There is a large body of scientific research on polyphenolics and biofilm, but not much on protozoal biofilm specifically. Still, I think its reasonable to assume that polyphenolics are a good idea.

    BTW, grapefruit seed extract is NOT a polyphenolic. Its a bullshit product that has been found to be contaminated with synthetic preservatives (that probably provide the observed antimicrobial activity). Its a scam.

    Protomyxzoa likes fat (its lipophilic)

    Fry Labs has established that protomyxzoa grows vigorously when provided with fats. This is based on laboratory culture experiments. I don’t have any information on which types of fats. This observation appears to be generic (i.e. protomyxzoa thrives when fed any type of fat). Consequently Dr Fry recommends a low fat diet for those with protomyxzoa. I disagree strongly with this advice.

    But the fat-loving nature of protomyxzoa does seem to suggest which types of antibiotics are likely to be effective: lipophilic antibiotics. I have observed that antibiotics that prefer to dissolve in fat tend to be more effective.

    • Ivermectin, atovaquone, and miltefosine are all highly lipophilic, and highly active against protomyxzoa.
    • Metronidazole and tinidazole are both active, but tinidazole works substantially better. Tinidazole is much more lipophilic than metronidazole.
    • Artemisinin, artesunate and artemether all have the same mechanism of activity (they generate oxygen radicals when they contact iron or certain enzymes inside a protozoan). They are all effective against malaria. But I have observed that artemether has the highest effectiveness of the 3. Artemether is the most lipophilic of the 3 drugs. Artemisinin is less lipophilic, and artesunate is the least lipophilic.

     

    Why I disagree with the advice to avoid fats

    There are three theoretical reasons:

    1) Avoiding fats means eating a high carbohydrate and sugar diet. And that means a high sugar intake. Such a diet will tend to increase blood “triglycerides”. And what are triglycerides? Triglycerides are FATS. A diet low in fats can actually cause an INCREASE in fat circulating in the blood. Obviously, protomyxzoa is going to thrive in such conditions.

    2) Dr fry has empirically observed that a low fat diet is helpful. But I think the reason is NOT because of the low fat. A low fat diet will be high in grains, legumes and the like. These foods are very high in polyphenolics and inositol hexaphosphate, also known as IP6 or phytic acid. IP6 is a mineral chelator and has a high affinity for iron. IP6 is known to deplete the body of iron. And iron helps protomyxzoa grow. Scientific experiments show that red blood cells loaded with IP6 (at concentrations much higher than can be achieved by supplementation) is lethal to malaria and babesia parasites. IP6 has also been shown to kill malaria and babesia (at concentrations higher than achievable from supplementation). Also, it has been proven that people with iron deficiency have much better outcomes, and are much less likely to die from malaria.

    3) Fats are essential for good health and proper immune function. The human body is designed to consume fats.

    So, I believe that the reason why Dr Fry obtains good results from his diet is NOT because of the fat restriction, but rather because of the increase in IP6 and polyphenolic intake, and the reduction in iron intake. A high meat diet will be low in IP6 and polyphenolics, and high in iron.

    4) And the fourth reason I disagree with this advice is because I have not found it to be helpful.

    However, I believe that I have observed that a low-iron diet is helpful. And that means limiting intake of red meats and the like. If I do eat high-iron foods, I always take extra IP6 with the meal. This binds the iron and makes it unavailable (prevents absorption). IP6 also binds zinc strongly, so extra zinc supplements are a good idea if you are taking IP6.

    A few comments on each:

    ARTEMISININ AND DERIVATIVES

    All are effective for protomyxzoa, but artemether works best.

    None of these can be taken continuously. The problem is that the artemisinins induce liver enzyme activity after a few days of dosing. The result is that after 3-4 days (it varies in different people) the liver starts to clear the drug so quickly that it becomes ineffective. Consequently, any of these drugs must be dosed 2-5 days on, and 2-7 days off. The ON and OFF time periods depends on how your liver behaves. 2 days ON and 5 days OFF works well for me, but I have been taking relatively high doses of artemether (three doses of 500-700mg, one every 12 hours).

    Artemisinin is a natural extract from the chinese plant sweet wormwood. Its available as a supplement.

    Artesunate is a semi-synthetic (it is a chemically-altered form of artemisinin). It is more water-soluble than artemisinin. It is approved for malaria treatmant and is widely used for this purpose. It can be legally obtained in the US but lots of paperwork and hassle are required.

    Artemether is a semi-synthetic. It is not soluble in water. It is lipophilic, and I think that contributes to its superior effectiveness. However, it is not available in the US. Your doctor cannot even prescribe it, even though it has been used for malaria treatment around the world for many years. The only way you can get it is to buy it from a chemical company. It costs about $130 for 25 grams, so its cheap. Look around on the internet. You can find it.

    Artemisinin and derivatives are also effective against cancer. This is interesting because many drugs and treatments that are effective against cancer are also effective against malaria and protozoa (e.g.like IP6).

    Science papers will be posted on other threads.

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    #251
    lilneeds
    Member

    Thank you! This site is awesome and severely needed. I was diagnosed with Protomyxzoa Rheumatica with substantial biofilm a year and a half ago. My experience with this organism matches exactly to your descriptions of effective treatment. I am still struggling to get it under control, but Tinidazole seems to be the most effective (even though it makes me feel horrible when I’m actually taking it). As a scientist myself, I have been extremely skeptical about this new organism and the claims made by Dr. Fry, but everytime I question it and change treatment going away from protozoal treatment to more bacterial treatment, I get worse. Also, I cannot eat red meat or pork without feeling worse nearly immediately. It literally feels like my blood gets thicker and I lose circulation to my feet. This has all been really difficult for me to accept without scientific publication. For that reason, I emailed Dr. Stephen Fry about six months ago and asked WHY he had not published anything on this organism that, in my opinion, is making so many people sick. He responded nearly immediately by saying legitimate scientific research takes time. Of course, I know this, since my small masters research project took time. The review process is extensive and requires several years AFTER research is finished. It’s hard to be patient (ha- no pun intended), but it’s all we have right now. I can’t wait to read his first paper!

    One thing that doesn’t make sense to me is how fast my body reacts to eating beef or pork. Typically, I will feel the thick blood, poor circulation, muscle-cramping in lower legs within 20 minutes of eating. It seems like it should take a lot longer for the iron to reach the organisms and then for them to grow enough to effect my circulation. Do you have any thoughts on this?

    #254
    Dan S
    Keymaster

    Yes I have thoughts on that. I do think that consuming iron can have an immediate effect on the infection. Iron is rapidly absorbed, and appears in blood serum in less than an hour after eating. This is why iron testing (testing for serum iron) requires fasting. And iron is almost certainly the one nutrient critically lacking for PR growth. So once pr gets iron, it starts doing its thing immediately.

    <div>Look into phytate for iron binding, and bloodletting for rapid,iron reduction.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>Lets talk more about phytate later.</div>

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Dan S.
    #292
    Matt
    Member

    I too have a science background and suffer from what I believe is PR.  After over a year of anti-protozoal agents, I can still see parasites in some blood smears.  I am not 100% convinced on your opinion on fat intake because a low to no fat diet doesn’t have to mean an increase in sugar intake and triglycerides.  It most likely will, but it doesn’t have to be the case.  I did a 3 week raw vegetable diet with no fat last year with great results.  As you know, that is difficult to sustain in today’s modern world but I have tracked the foods that make me feel good and the ones that make me feel bad in an attempt to ascertain what the protozoa wants or needs to flourish.  I learned quickly that beef and pork weren’t beneficial.  While going low fat causes Herxes, eating foods rich in arginine is what the protozoa prefers.  I believe more study should be put into arginine’s role in protozoal replication.  The roll of polyamines should be studied as they play a big roll also.

    #299
    horsegal59
    Member

    Has anyone ever heard of PR feeding on Glutathione? My Dr spoke to Dr Fry and somehow came away with this concept, but I can’t seem to find confirmation of this anywhere.

    #322
    Gary
    Member

    Hi I am new to this forum, and have participated in the Curezone forums for a number of years.

    I hope this forum is more active and insightful, as I am a researcher of  diseases.

    My specialty:  diagnostics of infectious diseases of the gut, and blood systems.

    Methods I use are microscopic exams of fluid samples, and other proprietary methods.

    Confirmations of detected pathogens have been obtained through barcode analysis and PCR methods.

    My experience allows me to detect offending microorganisms by recognition of immunological markers, and antibody accumulations, and phagocytic infiltrates (RBC infiltrates are rare, but easier to evaluate).

    I have been witness to many odd infections, and co-infections. It is my belief there are genetic recombinants of a variety of microorganisms now existing  within the open environment, due to a number of contemporary factors.

    My interest belongs to single-celled parasites (pathogens) and virologically acquired  illnesses.

    My response to the organism that is purported to be infecting those tested for protomyxzoa is held with a degree of caution. I believe there are other components to be considered  for those affected individuals. A full diagnostic picture requires more research in my opinion.

    I am always ready for discussion, and certainly interested in evaluating diagnostic information coming from individuals who have undergone laboratory testing.

    Shroom

    #332
    Charles
    Member

    Can I ask how I can get a hold of miltefosine? I would really like to try it. Its anti fungal, anti amoeba, anti leishmaniasis, and anti protozoan.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Charles.
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